217. Nutritional Therapy Business: 10 Years of Hard Lessons w/ Kelly Dwyer

Learn how to build a sustainable nutrition practice that actually works without burning out. Kelly Dwyer shares 10 years of real-world lessons from her nutritional therapy business journey.

In this episode you get:
 • The 3-part client framework that gets 50-75% renewal rates consistently
 • How to transition from working in someone else's practice to running your own profitable business
 • Why simplifying your process (not adding more flyers) actually gets better client results

NEXT STEP:

👉 Join The Profitable Nutritionist Program Now: https://theprofitablenutritionist.com/join

👉 Book a Discovery Call: https://theprofitablenutritionist.com/book-call/

💰 Sign Up For The TPN Prep Course For Free Here: https://theprofitablenutritionist.com/free

Watch on YouTube

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Connect with Kelly:

Website

LinkedIn

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Hi, I’m Andrea Nordling – Nutritional Therapy Practitioner, business coach, entrepreneur, and host of The Profitable Nutritionist Podcast.

Since age 22, I’ve built 3 highly successful businesses from scratch, including my own online holistic nutrition practice. After deleting all of my social media accounts in early 2021, my business grew faster than ever — and now I teach other health professionals how to do the same.

On this pod, you’ll learn how to:

✅ Build a thriving online practice without relying on social media
✅ Consistently attract and convert clients
✅ Create simple systems that scale without overwhelm

💡 Subscribe or Follow so you never miss a new episode packed with practical strategies that actually work.

© 2021 - 2026 Andrea Nordling

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Transcript

00:01
Andrea Nordling
My friend, you are in for a treat with the episode you are about to watch of The Profitable Nutritionist podcast, where my client, Kelly Dwyer is going to bring you behind the scenes of what it is actually like to work with a full client load, which she has been doing as a nutritional therapist for the last 10 years. And her business journey is really interesting. She actually got started working in another physician's office and did that for five years before she eventually transitioned into her own private practice. And she has a lot to share about the ins and outs of what that actually looks like. What is an arrangement between a different practitioner and her supporting that person's clients. What does that look like? What does it look like? Actually creating your client process, delivering iterating it, changing it over time. 

00:43
Andrea Nordling
And you might be really interested, I think is the word I want to use. You might be very interested to know that she actually works with kids alongside adults and she has something to say about that as well. 


00:53
Andrea Nordling
So without further ado, I'm going to let Kelly take it away. But keep listening to this episode. If you really want some help and some actual strategy on your client process and what that looks like or could look like in your practice, you're going to love what Kelly has to share. Kelly, welcome to the Profitable Nutritionist podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. 

01:13
Kelly Dwyer
Thank you. I'm excited that I'm on your podcast. 

01:17
Andrea Nordling
I mean, this is going to be so fun. We have a lot to talk about. Your business has changed a lot in the last few years. You have a lot of experience in working with clients. I know you have some takeaways that we're going to share. I don't even know where the conversation is going, but I know it's going to be amazing. So I'm excited. 

01:32
Kelly Dwyer
Yay. Me too. 

01:34
Andrea Nordling
She says with a look like, I don't know about this. Why don't you give everybody a little background on who you are and your amazing past life and past career and how you got to where you are today? Because I think that will really set up everything else that we talk about. 

01:48
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah. So I spent the first part of my career writing in journalism. I spent about 20 years, 10. First the first 10 as a staff writer and then 10 as a freelance writer before I went to Nutrition School in 2014. So, yeah, so I was a business reporter first in a B2B kind of environment with writing on telecom, and then I was at the Denver Post. Here I'm in. I'm based in Denver and Then when my first son was born, I started freelancing, which just seemed like a better fit at the time. 

02:35
Andrea Nordling
I love it. 

02:36
Kelly Dwyer
So how did you get about. I mean this is kind of a side note, but you know, under things happen for a reason. I proposed a part time schedule, essentially a demotion, so to speak, because I had been a beat reporter. I covered retail and real estate and I essentially said I'll be a general assignment reporter but I want to work three days instead of five. And I knew that with my current job I wasn't getting home until like 7:30 or 8:00 o' clock at night sometimes. And I just wasn't going to have. That's not what I wanted things to look like with a new baby. And I put that forth and they said no. And I learned later that it was an editor, a female editor in a room of eight people, of eight editors. 

03:29
Kelly Dwyer
And she was the only female, that she was the one who said no, that I wouldn't know where my priorities were. So, so much for progressive journalism. But I went on to write from this cute little desk in my kitchen and write for bigger and better publications, made my own schedule, got familiar with the feeling of that my son went to home daycare part time, he was with me part time. And I, it was awesome. 

03:59
Andrea Nordling
So little did you know how much writing you could keep doing in your nutrition business later on, which I'm sure we'll talk about. So how did you get into nutrition? 

04:08
Kelly Dwyer
I Freelancing was really fun. But as a lot of people know, journalism was changing. So we're talking about, you know, I was doing that between like 2005 and I did write through regularly through nutrition school. But between changes in the industry and just feeling a little isolated working from, you know, a dank basement office after being in a lively newsroom where you're everything's a buzz all the time. It just, it wore me down a little bit. Editors were coming and going a lots of budget cuts in publishing and at the same time there was sort of like that was the professional side and then on the personal side of my life, there's a lot of factors. 

04:59
Kelly Dwyer
When you, when you asked me before about, you know, what prompted this direction, I think a lot of people in our field had some sort of a health crisis or a family member has and I am very fortunate that there wasn't something super serious. I did have some issues postpartum with my first kiddo and my second kiddo in my body that got Me paying attention to more health than I ever had. But there was a convergence of factors. I had always had an interest in nutrition, but then I was trying to look at would anti inflammatory diet help my hip and back pain. And so I sort of got into that a little bit more. And then my writing at the time had kept morphing closer and closer. More away from business writing and more into health writing. 

06:04
Kelly Dwyer
And so really those last four or five years before I went to nutrition school, I was mostly writing health stories. And I was just diving down rabbit holes all the time, figuring stuff out, have little kids learning about bpa, writing about chemicals. And I thought, you know what, if you're going to dive down all these rabbit holes, you're never going to get the kind of clear information that you would if you really got an education in this, in some fashion in this world of health. And nutrition was just screaming out to me more than anything else. And then, you know, from a professional standpoint, felt really exciting to do something where I was actually the expert eventually and not as a journalist. You're perpetually the observer. 

06:58
Kelly Dwyer
You're perpetually asking questions and sort of learning a little bit about a lot of things, but not a lot about anything. So, yeah, that kind of got me going. So. 

07:14
Andrea Nordling
So you jumped into nutrition. You got, I mean, I know you went like through a pretty lengthy certification and education. And then what happened? 

07:25
Kelly Dwyer
Well, nutrition school was way harder than I thought it was gonna be. That was like biochem. 

07:33
Andrea Nordling
What. I know what nutrition school you went to, so I kind of figured that was the case. Yeah, like, holy cow. 

07:40
Kelly Dwyer
It was not what I thought it was going to be, and yet I loved every minute of it. And it was awesome. And I met a lot of cool people and I had great instructors. I went to NTI Nutrition Therapy Institute here in Denver. They still do. They have a brick and mortar school, but they have a pretty sizable online presence. Like a lot of things that's been kind of the direction and it was fabulous. So I didn't. I went through the program a little bit slowly because I needed to work through that. And I had little kids. And so it was just one of those things where it took the time it took, which was a little over four years. And then, yeah, I finished up and started working. 

08:36
Kelly Dwyer
I both started my own, even when before I was finished, NTI used to actually have two certifications and you could start working once you had the first. And so I had already launched my business, but I mean, kind of on paper, taking case studies Clients, things like that. But I didn't really know what I wanted to do. What I. What was clear in my mind is I wanted to be collaborative. I missed. Like I told you, I was in the dark, little spiders that would come in the window. I didn't want to be isolated anymore. I'm an extroverted person, and I wanted to be around people. So I was fortunate to get a position with a concierge medical practice, and I became his nutritionist. And that was really great experience because I got to see a large volume of people. 

09:38
Kelly Dwyer
The drawback was that one visit a year was free or included, I should say, in the price that they paid the doctor to be a member. And so a lot of people would take that offer up based on. 

10:02
Andrea Nordling
The. 

10:02
Kelly Dwyer
Fact that it was free, but had no interest in actually working on their nutrition. And so I developed a thick skin, but I also. I got in front of a lot of people. And, I mean, one of the lessons with that was really, really helpful for me. Later, when I was fully in my own practice and not. Not working as a staff member there anymore, I would have these fabulous conversations with people who would tell me how much, you know, they benefited from our meeting, how much they learned. They can't wait to follow up with me, and I would never hear from them again. And I would even, you know, I'd follow up with them, and it would be that 1 in 10 that was like. I mean, the minute they walked in the door, you could tell. They were like, let's go. 

10:57
Kelly Dwyer
They sat down for that original meeting, and they were just soaking it up. And, when can I see you again? And what more can we do? And so it was a lesson in people's readiness. I mean, I think I've learned more later, especially through your program and my experience in my private practice, that there are times where people think that they're not ready because they're getting ready to get ready. Like me and my business. Yeah. I mean, so. So there are times where people are ready, but it's a little different story for someone to book a discovery call with you by their own, you know, initiate. They initiate that themselves versus the doctor's. Like, you really. Your A1C is getting high. You really should go see Kelly, you know, and they come in, arms folded, kind of like, yeah, so. 

11:55
Kelly Dwyer
But it got me in front of a lot of people and a lot of different health conditions, and it was great experience. So. 

12:02
Andrea Nordling
So what years were that? Or, like, what time frame is that? 

12:07
Kelly Dwyer
Between 2017 and 2022. So I was in the office for five years. I launched my own business more robustly, I'd say, where I had my own office space and stuff outside of that, probably 2018, shortly after starting with him, because I was only in there one day a week. 

12:29
Andrea Nordling
And so I was physically in his office close to you one day a week. And then the clients that you saw through him, how, like, were you paid by the hour there for the clients? Like how. Just to give people an idea of what that payment structure can look like. And you don't have to give any figures specifically, but how did that work? 

12:50
Kelly Dwyer
No, I will give figures because I got paid well for being a fresh out of school person in that environment, but it was still like $50 an hour. Right. So not even close to what really our worth is. Right. So but if you look, I guess what I'm saying is if you look at the market for hiring people in an office like that who are fresh out of school, 50s, that probably was on the high end, at least for the time. 

13:26
Andrea Nordling
And so you were paid on the people that you actually saw that came. 

13:28
Kelly Dwyer
And I was paid $50 an hour for anything I did. And this, the beautiful thing is I took advantage of that. I also taught classes to groups of patients and when I would create the curriculum for each of those classes, I was billing them by the hour. So I was like, well, this is cool because. And it is because I have this library. Yeah, I've got this library of classes that, you know, if you're purely doing it in your own business, that's not paid time. So, you know, there were some benefits there. And then when Covid occurred, it was all hands on deck and oh, I just. We did everything and anything and everything. So that was kind of madness. I mean, like, that plays out in so many environments. But my reporting skills came back because weren't finding answers about vaccine availability. 

14:30
Kelly Dwyer
And so I just got on LinkedIn and I started just personally messaging like the head of Denver Health and like the head of Blue Cross Blue Shield here. Just like. And they would actually reply and it was really fun. 

14:46
Andrea Nordling
And the, the old skills came back. 

14:50
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah, I was like, well, this is what I found out today. And they're like, who did you talk to? I'm like, well, I just messaged the CEO and they're like, you did? I'm like, yeah, why not? Like, if they're not going to have answers. And that was the thing. Sadly, they didn't have a lot of answers because it was mayhem as we all Know, but, yeah, so that was. That was a great experience. Unfortunately, it was. It. It lacked that collaboration that I was hoping for. It did get me in an office environment where I got to, you know, walk by other people's offices and say, hey, what's up? And all that kind of fun stuff, water cooler talk. 

15:28
Kelly Dwyer
But the doctor, super smart and really supportive of me and really kind, but also very busy, and we would have conversations here and there about certain patients and next steps forward and how I can help, which I loved. But, you know, I'm holistically trained, and he's a more conventionally trained MD and who's very open to what I could bring to the. The patient. But we're kind of, you know, on parallel lines more than intersecting. And during that time, you know, when I was still. I started with him, and I was finishing up at NTI and I had to do internship work, and I interned at a integrative medical clinic, and that did feel more collaborative, and I really liked that. And so when I. My. 

16:26
Kelly Dwyer
My goal was ultimately to work in that kind of environment, and then at the same time, things were growing in my own business. And that's probably when I met you. And I was like, I want to work in an office. And you're probably like, why? Why would you do that? 

16:46
Andrea Nordling
Excuse me? 

16:48
Kelly Dwyer
Come. Come be in my program. And you're like, you don't. You don't need this. And honestly, now, I mean, I don't know how far to skip ahead, but I kind of baby stepped my way out of his office, and they were so supportive of me the whole way. And in fact, I'm technically still on staff so that I can get into charts when his patients come to see me now, which is awesome. And the patients love it. They're like, you can look at my labs. I'm like, yes. So they've been really great. And I still have a relationship, but I babysit my way out. As my business grew, and it was a little chaotic because I had. I was there one day a week. I was at an office I was running two days a week. 

17:39
Kelly Dwyer
And then if someone couldn't see me at one of those times, I was doing, like, virtual meetings. Post pandemic, I was doing virtual meetings from home, and it was just a little cuckoo. So I finally took the leap and just said, I want to do this on my own, and had established relationships with other providers, both with that clinic that. The integrative clinic that I interned in, and then a couple other people around town, fortunately, like a silver Lining to like having low back and hip stuff postpartum is that I've. I've met a lot of providers. I've. I've got PTs and chiropractors and you name it kind of in my back pocket. So it's been really cool to be able to refer my clients to other providers too. And I think people get the value from that. 

18:37
Kelly Dwyer
At least my local people, some of my clients are virtual and out of state, so. 

18:43
Andrea Nordling
Well, I was really excited for our chat today about this because I know that you do have such a wide variety of experience in the way that you've worked with clients, the way that you've gotten clients. I mean, there have been referrals, there have been other practitioners, there have been in person, virtual, all the things. And so I knew this would be a really fun conversation also, because it seems so mysterious. People ask a lot, like, what does it look like if you are getting referred by a chiropractor, if you're working in another practitioner's office, like, what does that actually look like? How does it function? And I think that the answer to that is everything's negotiable. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. Everything's negotiable. And it doesn't have to stay static the way that you think it's going to be. 

19:22
Andrea Nordling
Like, I kind of loved how you were talking about. I did workshops, I taught classes. Like, I did these other things that I'm guessing in the beginning, maybe that wasn't your idea of how that was going to go initially, but it just kind of evolves. And where you can add value, you add value. And when you feel like you've outgrown it or you move on. You never burn the bridge. Like, all of these are really good lessons, so I appreciate you sharing all of that. So you and I met, I think probably around 20, 22. Would that be when were in San Diego? We met in person? 

19:51
Kelly Dwyer
I think so. That sounds about right. 

19:54
Andrea Nordling
Yeah. We were at an NANP conference and so we met there in person. I'm sure I did tell you, come on, you got to be in tpn. Let's go. Let's. Let's go get your practice rocking even more, which you did. 

20:07
Kelly Dwyer
So I mean, like, everything. I have to think about things for like six months and get like, you thought like 75 emails from Andrea. And then I was like, okay, you know what? And I mean, you also had another one of your students independently told me that she was in your program. And who. We worked in the same office when I was renting space from a naturopath. And she's like, it's so great. It's so great. And I was like, fine, doing it. 

20:42
Andrea Nordling
I was so excited when I saw your name come across. I'm like, she's in. She's finally in. So you did get in. You did, you know, you committed, you started working through the process and through your own merits. Not, I'm not taking zero credit for it, but you doubled your revenue from the year before to your first year in the program. So how did that happen? Why did that happen? What's like, tell us the story. 

21:08
Kelly Dwyer
Gosh, you know, I don't think it's any one thing. There were so many lessons and still there's so many lessons from your program that I can point to as being factors with that. And let me tell you a few. Like, so one would be simplifying. You know, I, I hear your, like, I've listened to so many of your podcasts and then so many of like the training, the coaching calls recorded and everything that it's like, I feel like you talk to me all the time. So I can hear your voice saying, however simple you think you've made something, simplify it more, because I promise it. 

21:59
Kelly Dwyer
And I needed to hear that because like a lot of people coming into this job for the first time, imposter syndrome kicks in, and you're trying to prove to yourself and your clients that you know what you're doing. So you, and you want to give them value. And so you're what you lack in experience, you make up in flyers, right? Like, oh, you're constipated. I have a flyer on fiber. Like, let me give you this. Let me give you a menu plan. Let me give you anti inflammatory foods list. Like, let me give you this. And, and people would be very appreciative. And I even think they might think that would be helpful to them. And then I suspect with a lot of them, those folders would just collect dust in the side of their kitchen. Right. 

22:56
Kelly Dwyer
So I was overwhelming people with the amount of information I gave them. And I know from our coaching calls that this is not an uncommon story. And so I think simplifying not only in messaging and how I'm interacting with clients, but also in, you know, focusing one step at a time through the program. 

23:23
Andrea Nordling
Yeah, that's big. That's really big. 

23:26
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah, I mean that's one thing. 

23:28
Andrea Nordling
So simple. All Puns intended. But it's like, that's really as. It really is. So true. What we make up or what we lack in confidence and experience, we make up for in flyers. That's the greatest thing I've ever heard. It's so true. Oh, true. 

23:44
Kelly Dwyer
Another thing, too, that. That really helped from coaching my program at the time anyway, and I don't know what's changed was very, like I said, focused on the science, which was fabulous, but it was a little more limited in terms of client interaction and building your business. I mean, some of those classes occurred, but it was. It was a little bit of a footnote. And I don't know, honestly, if that's the role the program needs to play to help you get a job. 

24:16
Andrea Nordling
I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so. Can we talk about that for a second? I have strong opinions on this. I feel like it is a footnote in most education curriculums and certifications and, you know, all of the things to talk to you about your business, but it is. It's a footnote at best because that's not what those curriculums are for. That's not what. That's not the job. The job. Like, they are experts at helping you with the education and the. The client facing part of it, not the business part. 

24:44
Kelly Dwyer
Right. I do think they could do more if they aren't already, because it's now been, like, almost nine years since I was doing this. But the interaction with clients and helping people with the how piece, so that's been a huge part of my focus in the last two years. So many of the people who come to see me, the first words out of their mouth when they get on a discovery call is, I think I eat a pretty healthy diet already, so I don't know if I need you. And I'm like, okay. And sometimes they. They are eating a healthy diet, and sometimes they think they're eating a healthier diet than they are. And we gently work on that later. But it's this how piece of both habit change and logistics. 

25:36
Kelly Dwyer
Those are kind of these two areas that I see people get hung up with moving forward. So either it's, well, my work schedule is this, or I'm running kids here at this time. I don't feel like I have time to cook. I don't know how to cook. My family eats differently than me. All of these things that are really some kind of logistical challenges affect almost everybody. Right. And then there's the habit pieces. Right. And helping people to build new habits And I do feel like that should be a little more front and center because ultimately you can give people information all day long, but if they aren't feeling equipped, confident, etc, to. 

26:27
Kelly Dwyer
To act on it and make changes, I mean, I'm not going to be satisfied by just giving you lots of information that then you have to go figure stuff out on your own. So, yeah, I think, you know, in your program, some of the mindset coaching calls with Jilly Jill, I just like, I'm so visual. I know that she has an E on the end. Those were so helpful and that encouraged me to. When I was due for my. I would have done it anyway because I. I love learning new things. But I enrolled in the health mindset certification last year. Well, it's earlier this year and that was fabulous. And so it's really helped in terms of guiding how I interact with clients. 

27:20
Andrea Nordling
I mean, the mindset is it. Is it like. It's. I think people. We could talk a little bit about this, but I think people are overwhelmed with information. There's no shortage of information. There's possibilities. Podcasts and YouTube videos and Google searches and AI tools to give any piece of information that anybody wants. Now, whether it's the right information or not remains to be seen. Whether it's the right for their body, for their lifestyle, for. I mean, that all of that is up for debate, but people feel like they have the information. That's not what they're hiring for right now. That's not what they're paying for right now. In my opinion. It's the implementation, it's the support, it's the customization, it's the personalization, it's the accountability, it's the simplifications. 

28:02
Andrea Nordling
Like, you're going to tell me the three things that I need to do, and I don't need to sort through any of this information anymore because I'm already overwhelmed. I already think, to your point, I think I eat pretty healthy. But why am I on this call right now? Right. Okay, let's talk about that. So I agree with all of this. The information isn't what people are hiring a nutrition professional or a health coach for in this era. Yeah, information is out there. They need help distilling down the right information in these simple steps in the right order and actually implementing it and actually doing it, actually making it work in their life. 

28:37
Kelly Dwyer
Exactly. And I think now for me, some of my challenge interacting with people is kind of toggling between being the expert and saying, here's what you need to do in certain contexts and then in other contexts, step back, ask the questions, help people find their own answers. So an example would be if someone's coming to see me because they have digestive issues. A lot of what I do are either digestive issues or I end up working on gut with people who didn't even know that they needed to work on their gut until they came to me for some other reason. But when we're doing things that are more kind of protocol specific and that they, it's a little bit outside of their frame of experience from before. I am the person who's saying, okay, here's. 

29:29
Kelly Dwyer
This is what we're gonna do and this is gonna take. This part of this is gonna take eight weeks or this is gonna take 12 weeks, or this is what we're, you know, versus kind of that coaching side of it. And I feel like that's kind of my challenge now because I'm so accustomed to training being like, you're the expert, just tell people what to do and just having to pull back. And sometimes it's so easy to just start a client session. And if we didn't have a clear, usually we have clear topics before a call, but maybe that topic has, you know, they've already tackled that or they just, there's something else that's distracting them. 

30:20
Kelly Dwyer
And I always just come back to saying what's working and what's not working because then you just get, you get so much out of that and it's an easier way of versus saying, okay, we talked last time about you eating more vegetables. Are you doing that? Right? And the first thing people feel is like, well, kind of, I'm like, not good enough. 

30:47
Andrea Nordling
Not the way I'm supposed to. 

30:48
Kelly Dwyer
Right. And so I use that a lot. Tell me about your action items from last time. What's working, what's not working? Where can I help? Right? And then it's just, it's a lot less pressure. So looking at these kinds of things and I think the challenge now it's like I've learned this and applying it a little bit. 

31:14
Andrea Nordling
So what Kelly's talking about, for people that are listening to this, what Kelly's talking about is a coaching framework that we use in the program that we then say, now use this with your clients. Also take the pressure off of yourself to know every answer and anticipate everything they're going to say. You don't, you can't, that's not your job. Ask these open ended questions and let them Tell you what isn't working and what they think the solution is. Then we have a starting point. Then let's talk about it. Because we believe ourselves. People believe themselves. Like if I tell you this is what's going on, I believe that now the ball's in your court. We can have a conversation about it. But if you tell me what's going on, I'm instantly resistant to that. I'm like, I'm not sure. I don't know. 

31:47
Andrea Nordling
That wasn't exactly right. And I feel like I want to clarify that to you. I want to like be a unicorn. I want to be a special snowflake. I want to tell you why the circumstances are the way they are versus if you just ask me some open ended questions that are strategically placed in the conversation, then I will tell you what's going on. And I. And, and that's the verbatim truth to me. And then we have a place to go. It's just it. Yeah, I think that's what you're saying. But I just want to clear that up for everybody. If you're wondering, it is. These are just basic coaching tools that guide a conversation to take the pressure off of you, to feel like you have to prepare so much because you can't. Yeah. 

32:20
Andrea Nordling
And you will always feel ill prepared and sweaty and. Am I dropping the ball? Am I dropping the ball? Don't set it up like that. That's not the relationship for sure. 

32:29
Kelly Dwyer
Exactly. 

32:31
Andrea Nordling
So good. Okay, so you have all the clients. We haven't really touched on this, but people I know are going to be listening to this and they're like, okay, so I want to hear about her practice. Does she have a niche? Does she only work with a certain clients? She works with them one one, it sounds like. And that could be in various capacities. So let's talk about your offer a little bit. You do work with one one clients. Do you have a niche? 

32:52
Kelly Dwyer
I don't have a niche in a formal way where I say no to other people. 

33:03
Andrea Nordling
I like how you answer that. That's so good. Yeah, perfect. 

33:06
Kelly Dwyer
Well, and I will say this, and I'm saying this specifically because I think it's really important for people to know this. I will say no to Oncology Nutrition, an oncology client who's actively in treatment for cancer because it's one of the, I mean, there's always some healthy, everybody habits that become the wrong answer with a certain condition. It could be an autoimmune condition, it could be something else. It could Be someone's high and you know, they are sensitive to oxalates or something. And so no, beets aren't good for them. I mean there's always those exceptions. But in cancer, I do not mess around. There's a lot out there that's great for the rest of us that while someone's in treatment is not helpful. And there's great oncology nutritionists where that's all they do. So I refer to that. 

34:08
Kelly Dwyer
But anybody else, pretty much that's either a teen or an adult. The only program I, I have two programs. I have an adult program and a teen program. I don't market the teen one at all. Still focused on, you know, I created the one offer in your program and I've just stuck with that. And so the teen stuff's out there on my website. And then having had, I have one teenager left, he's 19. But being in that age group with my kids, people just found me. I don't know what it is, but I love my teen clients when they find me. But I don't actively market that. So I'll talk about my adult program, which is one to one, mostly women is who I'm speaking to, but easily half my clients are men at any given time. 

35:03
Kelly Dwyer
I have a framework that I created during your program. I think what this was a game changer for me in terms of how I think of my own business, because I'm a big believer and this was part of my nutrition education too, is that we're all different, that we all are a little bit of our own unicorn. And I mean biologically there is a lot of various variable variability between people and then people have different lifestyles and different dietary preferences and all the things. Right. So I really care a lot about helping people in the way that's best possible for them. But I learned through working with you that you can create a framework that's essentially the same and operate within that. And that's what I've done. I have. 

36:02
Kelly Dwyer
And it came together so easily because I was able, by the time I created the framework, I could already look back and go like, what have my people needed? Where have they been successful? Where have they not been successful? What mistakes have I made? And so I have a three month program with three areas of focus in the framework, which is nutritional, like foundations, which is everything from like, you know, oh, it looks like you're not eating enough protein or let's get you drinking more water to helping with the logistics of, you know, you work till 8 o' clock every night. How are we gonna. How are we gonna do dinner? So the basics. And then the second bucket is nutrition therapy. My education, supporting people in a targeted way for what? 

36:51
Kelly Dwyer
Whatever their goals are, health conditions, whatever's kind of, you know, up at the surface as most important to them. And then the third one is support for lifestyle and habit change. So through the intake process, that discovery call, the intake form that they fill out before we ever meet. And then that first meeting, usually something outside of nutrition bubbles up to the surface as needing the most tlc. So it could be sleep, it could be stress, it could be not getting outside. But let's say somebody has. It could be movement. But what if someone has a great workout routine and that has no, like, they don't need motivation. They're doing a mix of all the things. We may never talk about exercise again because it's not what they need, but their stress is through the roof. Right. 

37:48
Kelly Dwyer
So we work on those lifestyle and habit types of things all throughout. And in that framework, I always start with the basics, the nutrition foundation piece. But depending on the person, their personality, what their goals are, we may get into nutrition therapy right away. And in other cases, we kind of baby step there, depending on how much time they really kind of need to work on the basics. 

38:18
Andrea Nordling
How many of your clients, if you just had to just guess, how many of them continue after three months? 

38:26
Kelly Dwyer
Somewhere between at any given time, like 50 and 70%. 

38:31
Andrea Nordling
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I think that's another misconception for people, and especially as they're listening to this, like, how does she get it all done in three months? You don't, you don't. You make progress in three months. You establish a relationship in three months. You get habits in three months. You have trust that's built in three months, and you have an open invitation to continue for another three months. 

38:51
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah. And I'm still working on how to have that conversation and have people continue that I know would benefit from continuing. And. Yeah, but it, it's. It's gone well. 

39:10
Andrea Nordling
And 75 of people are continuing. I think you're doing a great job. 

39:15
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah, it's it. And I, I love when people do continue because usually there is more to work on. Right. We just, we all underestimate how quickly we're going to get things accomplished with. 

39:31
Andrea Nordling
Our health and our business and all of the things and our schedule and our calendar. And I'm so ambitious sometimes when I look at my calendar and then I'M like, what was I thinking? What, in what world did I think that every single thing was going to work perfectly and there would be no interruptions and there would be no traffic and there would be no anything? We're just so ambitious sometimes. It's funny. 

39:53
Kelly Dwyer
Yes. 

39:54
Andrea Nordling
Yeah, hilarious. Okay, so a little just pointer for anybody that would like that. I'm not saying that you need to change anything about what you're doing, because I think 50 to 75% renewal rate is fantastic. But my suggestion would be starting on the discovery call, when you lay out the offer to saying, I work with clients for a minimum of three months and then you talk about your three month package and it already plants the seed of like, oh, this is the starting point. And there's something beyond this. Whether you ever talk about what that looks like or not, and you probably won't until a little bit later on, their subconscious mind is preparing for more. 

40:30
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah, yeah. And I do that and I think that's helpful. And I, I try to mention that. I, I say exactly what is the way it is. I say, you know, somewhere between 50 and 75% of my clients continue to see me for six months or longer. And I tell them why that usually it's either someone who really appreciates the accountability or it's somebody who might have a more complex health condition doing gut repair things. Some of these things take a long time because I have a couple clients. You know, I have one client that's going on three years with me. I have a client that's going on a year and a half. And unfortunately they're not super healthy. But then I've had other clients that have gone longer just because they love to learn and optimize and they like the support. 

41:23
Kelly Dwyer
So it looks. 

41:24
Andrea Nordling
So this is a great question. Okay, let's dig into that. If they, these clients that have worked with you for a long time and they aren't at optimal health yet, but they continue to pay you and they continue to work with you, why is that? What, but what benefit are they getting outside of the, like, health outcome? That's the ideal that we might assume would be the only driver there. What, why do they. 

41:44
Kelly Dwyer
Well, I'm thinking about one client, the one who I said has been with me for about three years. She has a couple different autoimmune conditions and she already. I'm an AIP coach also. That's autoimmune protocol, which I honestly don't get a ton of those clients. I mean, a lot of My clients have autoimmune conditions, but not necessarily wanting to do aip, which, for those who don't know, that's an elimination diet. And you're doing gut repair and things like that in the. In the meantime. But it's a pretty rigorous elimination diet for 30 to 90 days, and some people aren't totally up for it. Interestingly enough, this client that I've had for three years did AIP on her own before she ever found me, and found me because she wanted help with reintroductions. And I was like, oh, this is easy. 

42:47
Kelly Dwyer
I don't even have to be the bad guy and tell you what we're not eating. So for her, it's been. I am going to get back to your answer. But part of the journey for her has been that she's pretty symptomatic with one of these autoimmune conditions. And so things get. They stop and start, and they stop and start in terms of progress on reintroducing foods. And I think she also saw. She needs to find a new doctor because he moved, but she also saw a functional medicine MD who she really liked. And. And we. He and I never met each other, but were sort of collaborative and in the sense that he'd be like, well, what does Kelly want you to do about this? And I'd be like, well, what does Dr. Danny say about that? 

43:43
Kelly Dwyer
And I think in large part, she likes having the reassurance that, like, as she navigates, one of her autoimmune conditions is celiac. And it's pretty severe in the sense that, you know, some people are more reactive to others if they're exposed to gluten. Her system can go off the rails and it sucks. Right. So it's kind of all the things with her in terms of both the nuts and bolts of, like, okay, let's. We've done gut repair. We've done. We've done some reintroductions. We're still. Still working on others. I help her troubleshoot things that are going on with her health. But then I think I'm also working a lot with her on the coaching side of some of the lifestyle things that really matter for somebody with an autoimmune condition, like getting enough sleep, like managing stress, gentle movement if. If they're exhausted. 

44:44
Kelly Dwyer
We come back to some of the same themes. And honestly, it's interesting that we're talking about this, because I sometimes wonder why she still wants me. 

44:55
Andrea Nordling
Yeah, but it's. But it's so great. But she, like, think about that is why I asked the question. It's a very leading question because I want all of us to think about that. The intangibles, like she has accountability with you that you maybe don't appreciate. That is a security blanket to her in some way that she's willing to keep paying you. 

45:14
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah. 

45:15
Andrea Nordling
How incredible is that? That you can offer that? 

45:18
Kelly Dwyer
It is awesome. And it kind of feeds a little bit into the price drama that a lot of us have in this business that sometimes I'm like, oh my God, I'm still. But you know, I also know from my own life when I've had. I mean, I don't work with any providers that are on kind of like a package like me, but. But the people that I know are there for me. This pelvic PT and this other PT and this acupuncturist. I can't tell you how many times I've had a flare with my back or hips. And I think like, and this goes way back. I'm very fortunate, knock on wood, that I. Those kind of injuries that I've had are well managed and I'm strong and I really don't have major issues anymore. 

46:11
Kelly Dwyer
But I used to get a little freaked out because it was pretty rough for a while and I would make an appointment with my chiropractor and you know, like the minute once I knew that I could get into her in two days, you find. 

46:25
Andrea Nordling
Felt fine. 

46:26
Kelly Dwyer
I felt fine. I felt fine because like she already had me and of course I hadn't even gone into her step foot in her office yet. So there is something to be said for that. 

46:37
Andrea Nordling
Yeah, there is. No, I just. The reason I wanted to ask that question is I just think it's so. I love the behind the scenes that we're doing here on what it's actually like working with clients. And my next question is going to be how is that different than you thought it would be working with clients? So you might want to just like start thinking about that a little bit. But the drama that I see with a lot of people is like, I have to get some. Someone this very specific results within this very specific amount of time. And that's stressful and it has to be the right niche of person. It has to be the perfect offer, the perfect package for the perfect duration. I have to have the perfect process that everybody will fit into and this will. And that's not possible. 

47:14
Andrea Nordling
None of that is possible. So pressure, pressure. None of that is even possible or necessary. And the reality is that someone is going to say yes to you, and probably many people are going to say yes to you for reasons you don't truly understand. And you support them in ways that maybe don't even feel significant to you, but it is to them. And what an incredible opportunity that we have to do that. Like, let the magic happen, let people keep paying you, let people keep working with you, let them talk about that to others. And for three years, you've helped this woman and to you, maybe it doesn't look like she has this, like, these incredible health results. She's not, she's not vibrantly healthy with no symptoms. But think of where she would be had she not had you for the last three years. 

47:53
Andrea Nordling
I think how different her life would be in her experience and her just her stress level probably around it. So the intangibles, all that to say. 

48:00
Kelly Dwyer
The intangibles, for sure. I, I think that's really a key point because it's easy for us to measure our worth and effectiveness by like, checking a box that, you know, and sometimes it is, it does. I do get a big, like, you know, dopamine hit when a client who is a 1C of 5.9 worked with me and they've retested and now it's 5.4. I mean, like, that's like one of those concrete things that you're like, I helped you do that. But I feel like there's very few of those, way fewer than I expected. And so, I mean, I think that's a good lesson of what we do is to not measure our effectiveness by those kinds of things. I mean, take them as, you know, happy outcomes when they occur, but to not sort of use those things as, like. 

48:59
Kelly Dwyer
Because sometimes you help people do all the right things. I have a client right now. I'm helping her do all the right things with her Diet and her A1C is exactly the same, but she's also on prednisone and she's also on a post breast cancer medication. And both of those can raise blood sugar. And I'm. And she's stressed, so I'm like, yeah, I. But to your point, like, knowing that they still show up, that they still ask your opinion, that they still share wins with you're like, oh, yeah. 

49:33
Andrea Nordling
They'Re getting that people share can be so much different than what we expected to be. And the things that people are excited about and the things that they're like, this was Amazing. Let me tell you about it. 

49:42
Kelly Dwyer
Yes. 

49:42
Andrea Nordling
Like left field. Okay. All right. Amazing. And how humbling is that, too? 

49:48
Kelly Dwyer
Totally. Yeah. I love it. 

49:50
Andrea Nordling
So what does surprise you about working with clients? Because you are. I mean, you've worked with a lot of clients, and you continue to work with a lot of clients. You're pretty full. So I know that your experience here is helpful for people. What surprised you about getting in the nitty gritty of creating protocols and supporting people with habit change and lifestyle and managing complex conditions and all of these things that you do so well, that you just are nonchalant about, by the way. But we're gonna. We're gonna celebrate all of it. What surprises you about that from what you thought it would be like? 

50:17
Kelly Dwyer
Gosh, I'm always surprised how much, like, really smart people don't know about some really basic things, which reinforces that message of simplifying and starting where you start. And. And then other people are like, well, obviously. And you're like, well, the last guy. That was not obvious to the last guy. So what surprises me. Oh, gosh. I think kind of what were just talking about, too, the things that people find benefit from working with me aren't always the things that I am kind of ruminating. Well, that's too strong of a word, maybe. But the things that I'm thinking, like, gosh, I really have to help them do this, and we're doing that, but maybe it's going a little slower, but this thing over here is going really well for them, and they're super excited, and they want to share it with you. 

51:26
Kelly Dwyer
And, yeah, I think that's. I think it's just. It's just surprising how different people are, too, and how different. 

51:39
Andrea Nordling
How. 

51:40
Kelly Dwyer
This is where that mindset comes back to is how they're going to change and get things done. And some people. Some people do want to be told what to do, but going back to that resistance that people have about being told what to do, if we think about it, if we break that down, they're still choosing to come see you, and they're still choosing to put you in the driver's seat, right? And say, I just want you to tell me what to do about this. So that's ultimately they're in control. Right. And they've made that decision versus me, saying, I'm going to tell you what to do, and you need to follow it exactly what the way I say. Right. But just that the variety of personalities and what works surprises me. 

52:29
Kelly Dwyer
And I think part of the challenge in that is knowing when you just need to say no. 

52:42
Andrea Nordling
Talk about it. 

52:43
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah, well, how much do I. How much do I make myself the chameleon and, like, fill in wherever you need and kind of psychoanalyze you, which is not my training, and figure out how best to help you, because that's what my inclination is, to always, like, be thinking of, like, how can I morph myself to help this person in the way that they need it? And I think as time goes on, I'm getting a little better at just, you know, sometimes we're going to click more than others, but it doesn't mean I can't still be helpful to them and that they're not going to still get results, which, by the way. And then I'll let you move on to the next thing. But when I'm talking with clients on a discovery call, I use some of the language that you taught about getting results. 

53:35
Kelly Dwyer
And the one thing I feel really great about, that I can. Maybe there's more than one thing, but I'm going to point out one thing. 

53:41
Andrea Nordling
I was going to say, the one thing that's right. 

53:44
Kelly Dwyer
I feel really great about is that all of my clients get results. I've never had anybody say, this didn't do anything for me. What a waste of money. I mean, they might be thinking that and not telling me, but I don't think so. And so I use that a lot, is that, you know, and I think actually people appreciate that it doesn't always come up on a discovery call, but when they ask, like, well, what can I expect? Like, what does this look like? And I say, you know what? I cannot promise X. I cannot promise you're not going to have any more pain with this or that your blood sugar will come down to that, or that your gut will be perfect. 

54:22
Kelly Dwyer
But I can tell you that my clients all get results and feel much better when we finish than when we started. And, you know, sometimes that takes three months, sometimes it's six months or longer. So, you know, I mentioned that. And then I think another phrase that I've really liked is mentioning that so much is possible. That's from you. That's from you. Do you remember that? Sure. Well, I don't remember the last time you said it, but that has really resonated with me, saying so much is possible, but you're not. I really flinch. And I think people are educated and gun shy about health programs and diets and all these things that make these sweeping practices, promises that can't be fulfilled necessarily. 

55:25
Andrea Nordling
So yeah. Which is a huge problem. And so because of that, we are just like, gosh, don't want to over promise. Don't want to over promise. When I give all the disclaimers 1,000,000 disclaimers. Want to really protect myself. Which comes across to a potential client is like, oh, they don't believe I can do this. They don't think this is possible. They don't, they're not. This. I have some, I feel their hesitation now. I'm hesitating. It's how we experience that. So how much we can shrink people's possibility with trying to, you know, to never over promise. There's just so much that goes into that I, I feel that so much. So I don't know in what context. I'm sure I've said this in lots of different ways, but I will just clarify. Like, I, I do feel like that's a huge problem. 

56:10
Andrea Nordling
We have to be confident and you have to be willing to tell someone, I can help you. The impact of that for people to hear and to experience and to sit with and to percolate with this as possible. We don't know what the butterfly effect is that in people's lives, but planting that seed I think is super important. 

56:28
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah, I say that a lot and every time I say it, I still go on the inside. But then, but then it works. 

56:37
Andrea Nordling
Yeah, it's amazing. It's just amazing how that works. Okay, well, before we wrap up, is there anything else that you want to share with somebody that's just getting started out or that is hearing this podcast and anything, any takeaways that you want to give them? As somebody who's been doing this for 10 years and doing it very successfully. 

56:54
Kelly Dwyer
And help, don't be afraid to raise your prices and it stays messy at all phases of business. And I, I still have to remind myself that because there's this kind of like internal voice that's like, well, gosh, you should have had this figured out by now. And then you should have had. And the thing is then you do figure something out, but you don't even give yourself credit for it because you're on to the next challenge. And so knowing that it's going to be messy and that's okay, that we don't, we just don't have all the answers. Not only with like a health condition, but just, I've never gotten to a point in my business where I'm like, okay, now this is just like this well oiled machine and I'm just kicked back and doing the thing. Nor do. 

57:51
Andrea Nordling
Nor would we really want to. Right. People that are drawn to this work and to being an entrepreneur in the first. We don't actually want that. We love the next level that like the personal development aspect of it. They're like, oh, okay, if this was possible, well, then what would. What would the next thing look like? We love that. 

58:08
Kelly Dwyer
We do, for sure. And I think, you know, one. One insight I had. I've had a couple. I've never been formally diagnosed with adhd, but supposedly that's me. And I don't know, I. I feel like everybody has ADHD now for all these reasons. But what I heard this neurologist talking about on a show was how that seeing something that's got a quote, diagnosis can be always seen as a negative. And that people with ADHD tend to have a lot of passion. They're entrepreneurial, they're creative, they're motivated, they're energetic. And I'm like, I. Oh, yeah. And I. I feel that. And I know. And so it's. It's kind of a cool way of seeing things, getting my calendar right and not dashing, you know, here and there and trying to be on time. Like, that's. Those are challenges for me. 

59:12
Kelly Dwyer
But there's all of this other stuff that we don't give ourselves credit for. And then entrepreneurial space and being like you said, there's a lot of creative people and passionate people doing this work. Thank goodness. 

59:27
Andrea Nordling
Thank goodness. Well, I like that as an ending point, but I want to know, how do people find you? Especially those that are listening to this right now and they're thinking, she works with teenagers. Nobody works with teenagers. How do I. Can I refer to her? So tell everybody where they can find her. 

59:43
Kelly Dwyer
It totally helps to have a teenager to not, like, be like, scared of them. Right? 

59:49
Andrea Nordling
Yeah. 

59:50
Kelly Dwyer
So how do people. 

59:50
Andrea Nordling
How do people do this? How do they connect with you? What does it look like? Let's go. 

59:54
Kelly Dwyer
So My website is eatwellgrow.com and I. I mean, all of my information is there. If you go there, you can book a call with me if you're beautiful website. 

01:00:08
Andrea Nordling
Yeah. 

01:00:09
Kelly Dwyer
Thank you. And I don't. I have sort of pretty dormant Instagram accounts and then. But you won't see me posting lots of stuff about nutrition on Facebook or Instagram. I just don't. I decided for me that was a waste of my time. I am on LinkedIn. That is. Has been very valuable for me. And coming back to. I think I've told you this in the past, Andrea, that Olivia's. The interviews you've done with her and some of her kind of bullets on LinkedIn have been really helpful for me. And I've made meaningless, meaningful connections and gotten clients lots of networking too, with other providers. I find LinkedIn really helpful. 

01:00:56
Andrea Nordling
I believe those are episodes 98 and 99 of this podcast, I believe for people that want to go back and check that out. 

01:01:02
Kelly Dwyer
And the nice thing about being on LinkedIn is you don't get all the toxic BS that's on, like your social media feeds. If you're, you know, you think you're going to Instagram to post something about food and then you're in a rabbit hole about something that has nothing to do with work. 

01:01:19
Andrea Nordling
Yeah. Yep. That is the plague right there. 

01:01:23
Kelly Dwyer
Yeah. And I'm very affected by that. And oh my gosh, can I just say some really off the topic thing. I feel like I'm so happy that AI slop is all over social media now because it's making me not look at it as much. 

01:01:40
Andrea Nordling
I'm kind of like the journalist is like, I hate this stuff. I hate it. It's so robotic and disgusting. This. It is the slop. Yeah. So it's repelling you. I love it. 

01:01:54
Kelly Dwyer
It's repellent. I just. Yeah, Hopefully I, like, meditate instead. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. 

01:02:01
Andrea Nordling
Yeah. The pendulum has to swing, like all the way to where it is right now, where it's just ew. And then it comes back somewhere. Oh, my gosh. For our next conversation, we should revisit this and do another episode on copywriting and not throwing out AI slop and messaging and that kind of stuff. Cause I know you're the genius of that. 

01:02:21
Kelly Dwyer
That would be a good one. Learning all the time. 

01:02:24
Andrea Nordling
Yes, Learning all the time. All right, so all the people need to send their referrals to you. For the teens and the adults alike. Just. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing today openly about what has worked for you and what hasn't and all of your experience. It is so fun to have these conversations about really getting into the behind the scenes of working with clients in particular. I think that's so mysterious for people. It's so. It's like. But what is it actually like? And your honesty about it does feel messy. But we can. You can have a framework that works for everybody and figure it out and do it anyway. Top notch. 

01:02:59
Kelly Dwyer
Well, and it's to. For us to even talk about it out loud, like it's helpful again, for me, like, all the time. We never stop needing to hear somebody else echo what we already know. Right. Can I really quick. You asked me something about niche, and I don't know that I fully answered it. I have been sort of taking almost everybody. However, what I have done recently is get a little more focused on my messaging towards certain niches, and it doesn't mean I turn away clients outside of those areas. But I'm working to refine my messaging better because I think I'm still working a little too hard to get new clients in the door. I'm like 95% refined referrals, and I need. I want more clients. Not a ton more, but I want more clients. 

01:03:55
Kelly Dwyer
And so you and I have talked a little bit about the quality of messaging, so I'm really relying on, in terms of health, things people might bring to the table, high blood sugar, anything to do with perimenopause. Nobody has ever come to me to say, I want help with perimenopause, but they have different things going on that they come to me and I go, oh, this is a symptom of perimenopause, and they don't even know it. And then things with gut health. I never, ever wanted to do any of this gut health business, but I realize how important it is, and that's really the core of what I do, is help people with. With gut health whether they realize they need it or not. 

01:04:40
Kelly Dwyer
So that's what my messaging is around, and it's also around helping people understand this, how piece believing that now is the time is right, understanding that they don't have to wait, they don't have to get ready, and. 

01:04:54
Andrea Nordling
They can do it, and they can do it now. 

01:04:56
Kelly Dwyer
And that's it. 

01:04:57
Andrea Nordling
It's so good. It's so good. Okay, Kelly, thank you. 

01:05:00
Kelly Dwyer
Andrea. 

01:05:01
Andrea Nordling
No, thank you. This is going to be the first conversation of many, I'm sure, on the podcast. So thank you for coming on. I so appreciate you. 

01:05:07
Kelly Dwyer
Thank you. I appreciate everything that you've. You've taught me and that I continue to learn. So it's the best. You're the best. 

01:05:16
Andrea Nordling
Yeah.